I know this is a big deal in gaming. It looks cool and the extra damage is cool as well. But is it realistic? There is scant good material on this on the net though I suspect with time and effort one can find the information needed. I won't link everything except a few videos below but just offer some thoughts.
Dual wielding is impractical in large combat. In small scale (like duels) it may have been more practical - though maybe not as practical as a shield. Duel wielding has occurred historically and is practiced in several modern martial arts. It does not appear to have been used on the battlefield much. If it were as effective as gaming leads it be, then everyone would have done it all the time. But it was not.
So I would guess, duel wielding developed in combat where the shield was not around. So lets say, for example in the street between rival gangs, groups, organizations what have you. It also appears that historically duel wielding gets most of its attention about the time the rapier came into more common use. And that came into use in street fighting duel situations. Only later did that become a ritualized aristocratic thingy.
So one is probably not going to wander around the streets with a shield (though that did happen) but a rapier and dagger? sure.
I would guess the duel wield grew out of this.
And one other thing. Duel wielding would be very difficult to master. It would be a feat of arms, a manner of showcasing one's skill. But something that would have taken a looooooong time to master. Hence it is mentioned in at least one ren. period sword fighting text. But the implication is that it was only used to showcase skill or just for the masters.
In Japan there are several schools that still teach duel wielding. Again though, we do no have a whole lot of historical reference to them. Meaning that, if it were the most effective manner of battling, it would have been more widespread.
In summary I would guess its a highly specialized skill useful only in particular small engagements.
The implications for gaming - limit the hell out of it and only reserve it for characters capable of managing it. Dex restrictions and level restrictions.
and
Dual wielding is impractical in large combat. In small scale (like duels) it may have been more practical - though maybe not as practical as a shield. Duel wielding has occurred historically and is practiced in several modern martial arts. It does not appear to have been used on the battlefield much. If it were as effective as gaming leads it be, then everyone would have done it all the time. But it was not.
So I would guess, duel wielding developed in combat where the shield was not around. So lets say, for example in the street between rival gangs, groups, organizations what have you. It also appears that historically duel wielding gets most of its attention about the time the rapier came into more common use. And that came into use in street fighting duel situations. Only later did that become a ritualized aristocratic thingy.
So one is probably not going to wander around the streets with a shield (though that did happen) but a rapier and dagger? sure.
I would guess the duel wield grew out of this.
And one other thing. Duel wielding would be very difficult to master. It would be a feat of arms, a manner of showcasing one's skill. But something that would have taken a looooooong time to master. Hence it is mentioned in at least one ren. period sword fighting text. But the implication is that it was only used to showcase skill or just for the masters.
In Japan there are several schools that still teach duel wielding. Again though, we do no have a whole lot of historical reference to them. Meaning that, if it were the most effective manner of battling, it would have been more widespread.
In summary I would guess its a highly specialized skill useful only in particular small engagements.
The implications for gaming - limit the hell out of it and only reserve it for characters capable of managing it. Dex restrictions and level restrictions.
11 comments:
Perhaps an exceptional exception, but didn't Miyamoto Musashi have a two-sword stance he felt made him invulnerable?
--Jeff
but no one used shields in japan for some reason
Dual-wielding was extremely rare and seems to mostly be a main weapons and a secondary weapon--not two main weapons like you see in gaming. Another side of this is that most games don't make shields realistically effective so people would rather take a second weapon instead.
I can't speak to Japan with any but scant knowledge. Resources, code, predominate use of 2 handed weapons and bows? Anomaly?
I agree that the shield is highly underrated in almost all iterations of RPGs.
Here is a coll video on the viking shield and combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc
So, it seems dual wielding was done in the late medieval period, but primarily for one-on-one dualing. And this was a highly skilled martial art requiring probably long study and constant practice to master. So why would RPG rangers get this ability? They're off in the wilderness, learning to track, live on their wits, hunting down orcs, no time to head to the local sword master to spend probably years of daily practicing to dual wield. If it is allowed in RPGs it should be for aristocratic PCs whose character is rich enough to spend all day in dual wield practice, rather than out earning a living. Maybe the C&C Knight should have the ability?
I would agree with that, or at least make it an option for a knight and remove it from the ranger. I think it was given to the ranger as simply 'something he could do but others can't" type thing. I would also allow it for highly skilled street brawler, the knife and rapier type. We would ten have blank sot with the ranger - except.
everyone likes that archery skill... a hunter/wilderness survival type would have it, would he not. And look at those speed shooting videos below.
Counterpoint: when we're discussing a world that features winged lions with eagle heads, wizards that can cast prismatic spheres, and bards whose songs can utterly remove the fear you face when cowering beneath an enormous ancient fire-breathing dragon, "reality" doesn't come into play. I would argue that the simple fact of this being a fantasy game should remove any stigma against dual-wielding--suspension of disbelief trumps the real world. In this case, dual wielding should be practical in game precisely BECAUSE it looks cool and deals extra damage.
Just my $0.02.
haha point well taken. haha i am usually the big messenger on this aspect of the game. but my mind is always bent to the sword and sorcery/grit/type trying to keep humans human and the others fantastic mindset.
as unfair as that might be!
Post a Comment